The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil,
but because of those who look on and do nothing.

~~~ Albert Einstein



Wednesday, August 15, 2007

When readers go nuts...


I have to admit, sometimes I'm just cranky. But I still attempt to nicely deal with those who read one post, and then jump to the assumption that they have a legitimate bone to pick with me. Most of the time, common sense prevails- but sometimes... I end up with conversations like this:


from Nicolas Martin
to lostinlimaohio@gmail.com
date Aug 14, 2007 7:07 PM
subject Duke
Where have you apologized for the garbage you wrote about the Duke
lacrosse non-rape case?


Now, the email asked a fair, yet annoying question- since clearly he didn't follow up with reading anything PRIOR to hitting the contact and bitch button. So, I felt I'd be helpful and point him in the right direction:

Lilo
to Nicolas

show details
Aug 14 (15 hours ago)
I've actually written 5 posts on the Duke case, starting within days of it hitting -not the major media- but a small report in a local news outlet:

http://lostinlimaohio.blogspot.com/2006/03/duke-lacrosse-rape.html
http://lostinlimaohio.blogspot.com/2006/04/duke-lacrosse.html
http://lostinlimaohio.blogspot.com/2006/05/who-is-real-victim.html
http://lostinlimaohio.blogspot.com/2007/04/duke.html
http://lostinlimaohio.blogspot.com/2007/07/story-behind-duke.html

I believe the post you most likely refer to is the one where I reference the News and Observer , and the lack of intelligence shown by a comment in that report ""Unfortunately, they are young men, and sometimes young men make bad judgments," Alleva said." My point in being annoyed at this comment is that an allegation of rape being passed off as nothing more than the antics of young men is both insulting to every young man, but blatantly disrespectful of the nature of the crime (alleged or not).

Let's be honest, had the school acted in a more serious manner in connection to these allegations- it is more than likely that they would have come to the same conclusion we have now, but much sooner. Instead of investigating it, they brushed it off as "boys will be boys" and their failure to act did nothing more than encourage the circus that followed. The school is directly to blame, as are a huge amount of people for failing to take any serious actions in this case- not even investigating it, and then once the media attention started to burn a little bit, they attempted to do a half assed job of cleaning up by pretending to be concerned and removing the players, and coach- still without any sort of true investigation on what was claimed to have happened.

But perhaps you'd care to read the other posts, before damning me over the fact that I didn't like the way that a school handled allegations of such a serious nature.

Lilo


Nice of me huh? Sadly, he didn't jump to saying he was sorry for assuming the worst, instead he opted to pick another route:

Nicolas Martin
to me

show details
Aug 14 (15 hours ago)
You are right to the extent that you backtracked. But it's a good lesson in skepticism about government allegations.

You mention "too many victims" in one post. You might be interested to know that, according to the US Department of Justice, the incidence of rape has dropped by 80 percent over recent decades. Not reporting, but actual incidence. According to the FBI as much as 25 percent of all rape accusations are false.

Nicolas Martin


Okay, well I'll just explain things to him- and help him clear up his issues, cause I'm still nice.

Lilo
to Nicolas

show details
Aug 14 (15 hours ago)
You do know that, oddly enough- in order to get stats on the decline of rape, they can only actually count the ones that are reported- either to the police, to a protective agency or to a clinic/hospital (and even then, given new regulations, those aren't always included either). They can not count ones that go completely unknown. When they tell us that they are including ones not reported, they actually mean not reported to police. Which in itself is a good reason to be skeptical in government allegations. It's sort of on the same level as the sexual offender re offense rates... they can only include ones they someone is aware of when they feed us lines about how treatment programs work. If the offends is not caught, or is caught after the case study closes- the public is sort of stuck with questionable results.


There, that should solve this... opps I suppose not:

Nicolas Martin
to me

show details
Aug 14 (13 hours ago)
You do jump to unwarranted conclusions. The feds do a massive survey each year to determine crime rates. That is, they contact tens of thousands of households and ask questions about victimization. So, once again you rely on your assumption -- which is false -- instead of tracking down the facts.

How can you claim to know anything about crime incidence without knowing about the National Crime Victimization Survey?

> National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) is the Nation's primary source of information on criminal victimization. Each year, data are obtained from a nationally representative sample of 77,200 households comprising nearly 134,000 persons on the frequency, characteristics and consequences of criminal victimization in the United States. The survey enables BJS to estimate the likelihood of victimization by rape, sexual assault, robbery, assault, theft, household burglary, and motor vehicle theft for the population as a whole as well as for segments of the population such as women, the elderly, members of various racial groups, city dwellers, or other groups. The NCVS provides the largest national forum for victims to describe the impact of crime and characteristics of violent offenders.



Source: The National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS)
Ongoing since 1972, this survey of households interviews about 134,000 persons age 12 and older in 77,200 households each year about their victimizations from crime.

Rape - Forced sexual intercourse including both psychological coercion as well as physical force. Forced sexual intercourse means penetration by the offender(s). Includes attempted rapes, male as well as female victims, and both heterosexual and homosexual rape. Attempted rape includes verbal threats of rape.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/rape.htm

National Crime Victimization Survey Violent Crime Trends, 1973-2005
Adjusted violent victimization rates: Number of victimizations per 1,000 population age 12 and over

Rape
1973: 2.5/1,000
2005: 0.5/1,000

Those are the official, the only, statistics.


Oh, I see what he is doing- he assumes that -OMG- these are EXACT NUMBERS. We'll help him with that, but I am starting to be a tad annoyed with his fault finding... since he had nothing to back it up:

Lilo
to Nicolas

show details
Aug 14 (12 hours ago)
You do understand that just because the feds are doing a survey doesn't mean that people are going to admit to being raped, right? These aren't unwarranted conclusions, these are observations. If a woman in an abusive relationship will look straight at a police officer and insist that she hit her face on a door by accident, do you really think that that same woman is going to honestly answer the questions in a survey? Did you not notice this part:

to estimate the likelihood of victimization by rape
These aren't die hard factual numbers, they are estimated numbers.

I refuse to argue the simple fact that as long as there are UNREPORTED rapes, we will never get a truly clear representation of the numbers of rape each year. Especially when sexual assaults often include sexual abuse of children, which since some of the victims are unable to even speak, and those abusing them are in control of ensuring that the abuse is never found out, will never be able to be counted.

You may want to consider reading this report, which highlights just a few of the problems with the data collection system. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/bgpcd.pdf

I also have a list of professionals, ranging from law enforcement officials to crime victims service providers and mental health professionals that can assist in explaining the compounded problems that exist with current stats.

I can claim to know, because I have for years, studied and talked with many people in crime related fields about the issue of sexual violence, the effects, the prevalence of it, and ways to improve the system when it comes to reporting data. I seriously doubt that you can list more than a handful of studies done which I have not either read, heard of, or currently have sitting either in a file on a computer or in a stack of papers on my desk.

Now, as fun as this has been, I am starting to seriously wonder why someone who came into my site searching for cheerleaders is so interested in debating everything with me.


There, things should be better now... and btw- he came in on a IMAGE search, not a "text" search...
Nicolas Martin
to me


3:21 am (7 hours ago)

One minute you don't know the stats exist, the next minute you are an expert on them. Like Colbert says, go with your gut.

Searching for cheerleaders? Not only do you not respect the privacy of people who visit your site -- a glaring moral defect -- but i was led to your site by a search in Google for Jennifer Porter, who has been removed from her cheerleading coaching job for inappropriate behavior. In all the years I've been using the net, this is the first time I've run into someone creepy enough to admit keeping tabs on a person doing a search on his site. You ought to do some serious wondering. Do you have a web cam hidden in your toilet?

I read some of your crap, and it's clear that nobody would come to your site to find informed commentary, and now we know they won't find respect for privacy. Tell your visitors you track their searches and see what they think of you.

Now it's perfectly clear why you wrote the rubbish you did about the Duke players. You are not the sharpest pin in the cushion.


Alright, this is seriously going down hill... how many things can one person whine about BEFORE they learn to read a little and have information to back themselves up? Okay, last time... I'll reply:

Lilo
to Nicolas

show details
11:08 am (0 minutes ago)
Who said I didn't know? Did you assume that from the almost three years of posts that, oddly enough have some which actually talk about stats? Or did you just imagine, while you were bitching that assuming I didn't know what I was talking about would make you feel better?

I suppose you failed to read the legal notice, about your 'privacy'. And, likely- you've failed to grasp that almost any site you visit has tracked your clicking. In fact, SiteMeter (one of the programs I use which can clearly be noted because there is a LINK to it on the right sidebar) is incredibly popular with bloggers, and even used in configuring over all popularity ranking of blogs throughout the blogosphere. And, I don't need to tell my readers- they are aware of it. That's actually how I get posts for the popular "Screen Caps of Pervs" catagory, in fact it tends to be one of my readers favorite features. So, I'm sure that they are aware that the stats are monitored on my site.

I honestly think you *thought* you would toss around your knack for saying irrelevant things and make someone feel bad. And, now that you've come to see that you aren't going to win the Duke fight, or the statistics on sexual assault fight, you've opted to be a sore loser and pick at whatever straws you can find... hoping that before you go away with your tail tucked between your legs, you might get one last shot at proving me wrong.

Sorry about your luck. But, do be sure to come back... as I plan on publishing these emails.

Lilo


Seriously people... I think I should start using the "mark as spam" button more often.