The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil,
but because of those who look on and do nothing.

~~~ Albert Einstein



Saturday, June 04, 2005

Response to Child Killer Post

I received this in my inbox today (I do welcome all thoughts on my blog, even stupid ones like this)

Appalled said...
It always amazes me how people can have an opinion on something that they know nothing about. Have you ever met Michael Luebrecht or his family? Do you know anything about him other than what you have read in the paper? I already know the answer to aforementioned questions. They are a big fat NO. I know this, because if you did know him you would have kept your mouth shut before writing the absurd statement that you did. Fortunately enough, the local news does not have all of the details in this case, or any case for that matter. They do not know the intricacies that are involved and as a result you, nor anyone else has enough information to even being to formulate an opinion for the matter at hand. I don’t even want to waste my time explaining the situation to a person such as you because it would be a squander of my time. Perhaps if something like this were to happen in your family you would have a different perspective on things. Honestly you should just keep your mouth shut because you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
10:34 PM ...


MY COMMENT BACK

First, well where to start? Okay let me explain why this sort of thing would never happen in my family. Although we have people suffering from various forms of mental illness... we are all good parents. And good parents don't kill their kids.

And about me knowing him. I do know he has OCD. I also know he has dark hair. Both of these hold the same amount of relevance to him KILLING his kid. Therefore- I believe that he deserves to be held accountable for KILLING his son.

Maybe you should tell the Lima News the whole story with all the facts. Maybe you should just stick with the facts. He's responsible for his actions. How much harder would it have been for him to call 911 BEFORE he killed his kid? Or, if things where that bad... why not just kill himself? That would have at least ridded the world of one child killing, needs to be sent to DEATH ROW person willing to tarnish the work done by hundreds of people trying to show society that the mentally ill are capable responsible people who are not to be judged and feared by the community.

Please don't pretend that you expect others to fall for this half ass-ed excuse of why it is okay to be on HIS side. I am on the side of those with mental illness that take responsibility for their actions, who would rather search for the right medication than allow themselves to blame the wrong medication or their illness for BAD PARENTING, for murder, for thoughtless acts of criminal behavior. I am on the side of the child that they buried, who lost his life due to the unspeakable actions of his own father. And lets be honest... if he really was that sick- then all those that allowed him to be around his children alone- including the wife, should be charged with child endangerment and found guilty for they are just as responsible. But- the problem is that OCD does not make one KILL babies. Spin it any way you want, but it just doesn't work that way.

It is however, interesting that although you don't take your insults and anger out on the child killing man who murdered his son, that you can become so enraged that I refuse to buy into this "let's say his mental illness caused this" defense. Maybe it's your way of not feeling responsible for the fact that you found him to be a good man. Maybe you yourself hold some kind of guilt for letting this come to be. And if you can defend his actions, then you can defend your own. Well, get as mad as you want. He willing be rotting in hell, hopefully the state of Ohio helps that come true a bit quicker. And so should those supporting him.

I am thankful that we live in America, that this happens to be MY blog- and because of those to things, I am able to say what I truly believe. Which is that ML deserves to be sentenced to death. And knowing that we live in this great country- I know that every America has certain rights. Those rights being, Life Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. ML has taken those rights, from a mere child who was never able to reach an age of understanding these rights. America also provides us with "justice for all", which means that we can expect the state to uphold the law and seek justice for a life so wrongly taken at such a young age. Disagree if you must, but at least do it with a excuse befitting one who would kill their child. Don't blame a mental illness. Don't blame Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. We are not talking about him "picking up and relaying the brinks ten times", we are talking about the time when he picked his child up from a sitter, filled a bath with water, and held that little boy under until the life drained out of him. What he did was unforgivable. Unexcusable. I have seen what mental illness could do. I have known someone with OCD. That person can not stand up to speak for the fact that OCD is not a "kill my kid" type of illness. But I will. My brother in law was a good man. Not a perfect man, and he did have his faults. But, never, not even at his worst moment- would he have hurt one of my children. He wasn't able to leave this world with a child to remember him by. But he has five neices and nephews that will remember him with love. And not just because he didn't kill them. But because he was a good kind man, a good uncle, a good person. Don't belittle that. Don't belittle the many many many good people out there suffering from one sort of mental illness or another who struggle for acceptance in this world. Don't allow your own horrible guilt punish the innocent people dealing with this disorder or any other. I hope that at some time ML can become a real parent- stand up and accept what he has done taking responsibility for it. Stop using mental illness as an excuse. Stop making his crime acceptable by passing the blame.


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uranidiot said...

"I am on the side of those with mental illness that take responsibility for their actions, who would rather search for the right medication than allow themselves to blame the wrong medication or their illness for BAD PARENTING"

Appearently you are not on the side of those with mental illness.
He didn't have to call anyone but he did! Isn't that taking some responsibility?

You know nothing about the process of medication for mental illness. You appearantly did not read he was off work while doctors were working on his medication.

So, he took resposibility for his actions & was seeking help, actions which you just said you support, yet you continue to speak your ignorance of the situation.
Everything is not as cut & dry out here in the real world as it is in your world.


"let me explain why this sort of thing would never happen in my family. Although we have people suffering from various forms of mental illness... we are all good parents."

Please do explain! All you did was further your prosecution of Mike.

So you do have mental illness in your family?
Perhaps it will be you we read about next!
No one in the Luebrecht family had any idea this would happen to them & neither will you.

So you have members of your family who drive 20 miles away then call home because they don't know where they are?
Or they are watching TV, they go to the kitchen make a meal, set it on the table then go back to watching TV. Having no clue what they just did.
When you ask them "aren't you gonna eat that on the table?."
They have no idea what you are talking about.

"you can become so enraged that I refuse to buy into this "let's say his mental illness caused this" defense."

As you've been told already by appalled.
We are angered by your stupidity.

What you've read in the papers is half the story.
His illness was not even mentioned in the first reports & everyone already had their conclusions drawn.

"we are talking about the time when he picked his child up from a sitter, filled a bath with water, and held that little boy under until the life drained out of him"

WOW! You know that for a fact! Just like you were there or something! But that is in reality the conclusion that you have made.
Just because that's what the paper said doesn't mean it's true.

I've seen several things that papers have written & I had seen myself. There are times when what they've written & what I saw were 2 different things.

"What he did was unforgivable. Unexcusable"
What if he doesn't remember he did it or what he did.
Sure he said he did on the phone. But that doesn't mean that when he came to, he didn't realize what had just happened.

"I have known someone with OCD."

Appearantly not very well. Did you live with your uncle for a long period of time? If no then you don't know enough.
And by the way we're not just talking about the OCD in "As Good As It Gets" that Jack Nicholson played.
There is more to it than that, which is what you don't know & what is making you look so stupid.

"I hope that at some time ML can become a real parent- stand up and accept what he has done taking responsibility for it."

Which is exactly what I hope for you. That you will be able to take resposibility for what you have been saying about someone you don't even know. About a situation you know nothing about because you weren't there. And a family you know nothing about.

You don't think living with the knowledge of what happened isn't punishment enough for Mike?

I'm not saying he should get off for this in any way but a mental health institutuion would be best for everyone.


In the United States, 1 in 50 adults currently has OCD, and twice that many have had it at some point in their lives.-
http://www.ocfoundation.org

Do some reasearch before opening your mouth!

lostinlimaohio said...

"He didn't have to call anyone, but he did" And one has to wonder why wait until after the child was dead. Responsibility is admitting that you have done something wrong, and then accepting the punishment for it. Not taking the easy road and blaming it on something that has no bearing on why you did it.

I do know something about the process of medication. And I'll give you something- if it was that bad that he felt he needed time off work- then shouldn't he have felt his kids where just as important and taken some time away from them? Maybe there would be one less dead child. But he didn't feel that way, because instead he picked one up from the safety of a baby sitter and killed him.

I do support seeking help for your mental illness. I do not however support someone blaming a non violent mental disorder on their criminal actions. I have seen the site you pointed at before- and I did go back and read it again. I am at a loss because no where does it mention that a side effect of OCD or its medications is killing babies.

I was sure that my explanation of why this wouldn't happen in my family was good enough.. but I will farther explain since you didn't grasp it. My family is made up of good people. Some with mental disorders, some with out. But they are all good people. Good parents. And good parents don't kill their kids. There fore, none of them would. Which then rolls into your next comment- and explains why you will never read of it happening to someone in my family.

Yes, some have mental illness in my family. Yes, I have received that calls from them that they went for a drive and don't know where they are. I have even awoken to find them gone, and searched hours for them. I have experienced the times when you have to remind them what they are doing, where we are going etc. Amazingly though- I don't have to explain why they don't kill their kids. That's something they know already.

OCD is not a "kid killing" disorder. It is not an excuse to kill kids. Or anyone. I am saddened that Mike has OCD- and would not wish ANY mental illness/ disorder on anyone. I do however find it repulsive that he or anyone else would like to use it as an excuse for his actions.

Yes, wow. See he DID remember it and DID know that he had done it- I actually heard the 911 tape myself. Where he ADMITS to doing it. So that sweeps your "doesn't know what he did" thing away. I had a brother in law with OCD. He was very close to us. I spoke to him often, and knew the personal struggle he went through. No movie, not even the one you mentioned ever really portrays what a mental illness can really be like. But then again, it's amazing one in 50 have OCD and he seems to be odd man out when it comes to not killing children. I agree there is more to OCD than meets the eye. But then there's always more to everything. OCD does not give you a free pass on killing people. It does not provide for an insanity defense when it has no effect on tha actual act you committed. I have green eyes. Just because I do something does not mean that my green eyes caused me to act in that manner.

I do take responsibility for my actions. For my words. I believe that it is important to stand up and accept what you have done, not sneak out of it by blaming it on a non relevant factor in your life.

I am glad to hear you don't believe that he should get off scott free, but I think the best thing would have been for him not to have killed the child to begin with. Now that he does, let the prison system deal him his due punishment.

Yes, 1 in 50 have this disorder. Have you began to wonder why they are not all killing their kids? It may have something to do with the fact that OCD is not a "kill kill kill" disorder. No punishment will end this tragic story. No punishment will ever replace what was lost. But at some point, we have to begin to hold those accountable who would hide behind a mental illness. If OCD was truly a disorder to which this could be blamed, then yes leniency would be expected. But in truth it is not. You can not provide any thing that defends his actions as a NORMAL response to OCD. As a symptom of OCD. As a believable theory as to why he committed this horrifying crime. My father has trouble with large crowds because of his disorder. Therefore the disorder is responsible for him not being able to go into some situations. It is not however the reason why he is unable to put dirty dishes in the dishwasher. Blame the illness for the issues that it creates, not for things it has little effect on.

Anonymous said...

hello. Guess what? I too have OCD. Guess what? I have had bad times too. Guess what? I didn't kill my kids. Guess what? I REALLY don't like dirt. Guess what? My kids get really dirty sometimes. Guess what? I still haven't drown them in a bathtub trying to get the dirt off. Guess what? Michael is going to hell for killing that baby and you might as well go with him for siding with him--THE BABY KILLER FROM FORT JENNINGS. Oh yeah--who's an idiot now? You and the BABY KILLER. How about I draw a nice bath for you and him??????

lostinlimaohio said...

I AM REALLY HOPING THAT LAST COMMENT WAS NOT DIRECTED TO ME.......... BECAUSE I DONT SIDE WITH HIM.

Anonymous said...

"I do know something about the process of medication. And I'll give you something- if it was that bad that he felt he needed time off work- then shouldn't he have felt his kids where just as important and taken some time away from them? Maybe there would be one less dead child. But he didn't feel that way, because instead he picked one up from the safety of a baby sitter and killed him."

I will tell you something- you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Just becuse he knew he neeeded help does not necessarily mean he had someone to take the kids-or thought that someone NEEDED TO.
I myself have children, and my youngest was very difficult and I was severly depressed. I talked to EVERYONE around me, no one would listen. I was not a good parent to that baby, and that is something I have to live with the rest of my life. No one listened until I had a complete and total nervous breakdown. Luckily I did not kill my children but wanted to kill someone else. Guess what- a year of therapy and prozac later, i was no longer depressed and could handle my family. Did it EVER occur to me that I needed a break from my kids? Nope, I was too busy trying to be a parent.

We do the bedst we can.

lostinlimaohio said...

Okay, did you ge the whole- HE PICKED ONE KID UP FROM A SITTER? He didn't need to find someone to take the kid to, because the kid was already in a safe place, what he did was remove that kid from the safe place and kill the child. I am glad you didn't want to kill your children. Amazing isn't it? And you admit you where not the greatest of a parent to that child. These are people who still claim he was and is the greatest of parents. That's my issue with it.

Anonymous said...

"Okay, did you ge the whole- HE PICKED ONE KID UP FROM A SITTER?"

YES I read that- and you know what I saw there? A man going about the daily routine. Nothing more or less. I don't think what he did was right, and I've no idea what really happened in that house (or in his mind) but it sickens me to see people who have no idea what they are talking about being so judgemental. No I didnt want to kill my kids, but I wanted to kill my husband. Pretty bad. And I was to the point that I no longer WANTED to TAKE CARE of my kids, but it never crossed my mind to "take a break" from them as you put it. We don't know what was going on in his mind, or what his resources were.

Quite honestly, you have your own parental shortcomings, and just because you never wanted to kill someone does not make you perfect.

lostinlimaohio said...

Never have I said I am perfect, or thought it. But you know what, I don't feel like killing my kids, and I won't. I do tend to spoil them. I do tend to let them stay up much later than they should. And sometimes I bake brownies for breakfast. Tim tells me its not healthy and I still do it when hes at work. I don't insist they eat veggies either. I also whisper to each of them when the others not around that THEY are my favorite. I know I shouldn't but I do. I don't beat them. I tell them 20 times a day I love them. I do something special with each of them all the time. I praise them most likely to often. I am over protective. I tell them not to talk to strangers, and I willingly fight their battles for them. I am not the perfect parent. I most likely not even half the parent I wish for them. I still clean their rooms, and let them mess them up. Yes, I am lacking the whole "brady bunch mom" techniques of parenting, and I will always wish that I was a better mom. But, see I am not blaming my paranoid behavior with my kids, or my lack of instilling good eating habits on a mental illness that has NOTHING read that NOTHING N O T H I N G to do with the things I do. That's the issue.

And here's the rest of the issue, he claims a defense- that is not probable. Like I have stated before- pick a more likely mental illness, and I may go along with it. But OCD. No.

And here's the biggest challenge- you felt like it, but you didn't do it. You sought help. He left one child behind, took home the other.

No one is MAKING you read this- you freely choose to. If you don't like my thoughts- feel free to click on the little "close" box on the top right hand side. Then you don't have to look at it. It doesn't bother me the least.

No one is a perfect parent, we all have our own struggles, but there a big difference in one who is a good parent and one who kills their child. If he really was that bad.... and they knew he was that bad... you don't entrust a child with them. If he was unable to see the danger for himself, than surely those who swear to have known him so well could have seen it. So maybe they choose not to see it. Fine, maybe it was some other mental illness. Fine. But you can't have it both ways. You can't blame it on OCD, say nothing was wrong with him that he was a great parent, and that you didn't see it coming- and then in the next breath say how badly he was doing. It's excuses.